tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post8505699879818822216..comments2024-03-02T02:26:00.928-05:00Comments on bleakonomy: In which I probably make too much of a chance encountertetracontadigonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04604381739383227553noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-47682456219767985672010-02-26T13:19:47.438-05:002010-02-26T13:19:47.438-05:00Dan is sadly correct, I think. It is a bit hypocr...Dan is sadly correct, I think. It is a bit hypocritical of me to say "sadly", though, because I am far closer to the Pizza Guys than to enlightenment, much as I would rather pretend differently. For me the dynamic here is this: I don't care much about downhill skiing (though a million times more than cross-country). As a fan of sports, if there is someone who is historically dominating, I might care, but not just for a good skier. However, I do care about attractive women, probably more than they or the courts feel comfortable with. So yes, I think of Vonn primarily as a good-looking woman, and then as an athlete. <br /><br />I think a lot of het men are like this with women's sports. I generally don't care much for women's sports, which, again, I know I sound like a jerk. But they are boring to me. So if there is an attractive WNBA player, I will think of her more as a good-looking woman than how she is in her sport. On the flip side, I like women's tennis, and so think of the Williams sisters or Kournikova on their talent first, and as sexual objects second. <br /><br />I honestly can't believe how much of a fratty asshole I sound like here, but I think this is how it works. Now, if you'll excuse me, some of my Sig Ep brothers and I are going hunting and then voting Republican.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02490045924214723301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-78048524044875647932010-02-26T12:05:59.658-05:002010-02-26T12:05:59.658-05:00It's just this sort of discussion that leaves ...It's just this sort of discussion that leaves me waffling between "Fair-play-to-her" and indignance/disappointment with regard to <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS363US363&q=danica+patrick&aq=f&aqi=g-s2g1g-s3g2g-s1g1&aql=&oq=" rel="nofollow">Danica Patrick</a>, depending on whether I'll feeling feminish or post-feminish.<br />But I think Charo is right (and NBC's coverage reflects this): the American public is (or thinks it is) far more interested in the Celebrity Bad Behavior Potential (CBBP) of the athletes than their athletic prowess.mierlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01581716387766061034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-77833830076028513292010-02-26T02:00:48.755-05:002010-02-26T02:00:48.755-05:00Welcome to America, Dan, where women are useful pr...Welcome to America, Dan, where women are useful primarily for their aesthetic value. Even in the midst of a discussion about one's career, evaluation is not based on intelligence, academic achievement, professional respect, or personality. It all comes down to what Transplanted Lawyer mentions: do-ability.<br />I say you're right. Charo has a point about the culture of charm and good-looks, and about the fact that the media highlights attractive people of all professions over people who are really good at their jobs. <br />But the immediate reference to sexuality over all other relevant human qualities is reserved for women. By men.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-58805612765021066882010-02-25T17:50:28.439-05:002010-02-25T17:50:28.439-05:00Fair enough.Fair enough.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11213051268392108382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-57185667046388806212010-02-25T17:33:36.612-05:002010-02-25T17:33:36.612-05:00Dan, Shaun White is overflowing with personality, ...Dan, Shaun White is overflowing with personality, and his looks match his personality, which goes along with snowboarding. Shaun White looks like a snowboarder, an x-treme sports kind of guy. As I mentioned above, it ain't just pretty boy (or girl) looks and talent that sells, personality is essential. Quick, who is the worlds heavyweight champion boxer? But Ali you know full well.<br /><br />charoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-67825576627426539162010-02-25T15:12:08.956-05:002010-02-25T15:12:08.956-05:00I dunno. That Shaun White guy seems to get plenty...I dunno. That Shaun White guy seems to get plenty of press.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11213051268392108382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-79984557827190289012010-02-25T14:13:44.506-05:002010-02-25T14:13:44.506-05:00"America was and is far more interested in Mi..."America was and is far more interested in Miller's athletic prowess" Please, it was far more interested in his personality and his looks. <br />Personality and looks trump talent (provided you have some) as far as publicity goes. Even exceptional talent and good looks are not even enough if you consider Pete Sampras, one of the greatest tennis players of all time. If he had a personality like Agassi, he probably would have doubled his ad revenues.<br /><br />And for the record, Vonn is attractive, but not stunning. If she were not famous for skiing she wouldn't be selected to be a playboy model.<br /><br />charoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-13543403032740934862010-02-25T12:28:54.040-05:002010-02-25T12:28:54.040-05:00Something I've noticed is how mainstream porn ...Something I've noticed is how mainstream porn is getting. You have Sasha Grey in ads for PETA (okay, they're over the top, but still). You have people pose for Playboy and it's not considered a degradation of any kind, just a shrewd business move. Younger men freely discuss their porn habits with female friends without a shred of embarrassment.<br /><br />Once upon a time, it was looked at as degrading. Think of the lyrics for Centerfold (if that's indicative of culture at all)...he feels his memory is tarnished by seeing his high school crush in a porn mag.<br /><br />I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing. I just notice it.Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09953173396955681485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-2045876102124461562010-02-25T12:21:02.252-05:002010-02-25T12:21:02.252-05:00My $0.02 - Ms. Vonn is a Olympic medalist skier wh...My $0.02 - Ms. Vonn is a Olympic medalist skier who happens to be attractive. I think she'd be considered attractive in virtually any context, but I also think her attractiveness is a secondary consideration to her athletic prowess, even for the Wheaties PR department. IOW, yes, America and het men think of her primarily as an athlete, IMVVHO.Gadfly Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-31503033572577441632010-02-25T10:06:05.344-05:002010-02-25T10:06:05.344-05:00You participated in a misogynistic and juvenile st...You participated in a misogynistic and juvenile straight-male bonding ritual more commonly known as "Yeah, I'd do her." Lindsey Vonn was the foil for this game, but the game was played entirely between you and Pizza Guys 1-2. By referencing the Wheaties box as opposed to, say, lingerie, you made a rather weak play (although it speaks well of your underlying feminism).<br /><br />As for a female athlete's public profile, particularly after her athletic career peaks, I think she needs to pick a path.<br /><br />Some athletes are subsequently still mainly identified by the public for their athletic prowess (Picabo Street, Annika Sorenstaam, the Williams sisters) and others primarily for being attractive (Gabrielle Reece, Katerina Witt), but that has a lot to do with the way they manage their careers and the image they project to the public. I can't think of any female athletes who have been able to project images of both athleticism and sexiness at the same time; Reece is about the closest to that I can think of this morning. But the choice, I think, comes from the fact that both the entertainment career path or the athletics career path take up a tremendous amount of time when pursued with enough vigor to make a real impact. Modeling may seem easy but it does consume a large amount of the model's time, and the same is true with coaching and performing in athletic competitions and seeking endorsements and such.<br /><br />Vonn made waves with a cover of Sports Illustrated that was allegedly "too sexy," although to my eyes the cover emphasized her athleticism more than her good looks. Now, she is attractive enough to pursue modeling, but she's also very athletic and as unlucky in these Olympics as Bode Miller was in Turin four years ago. So right now, she could go either way and she'll probably want to work hard at skiing to see if things go more smoothly for her four years from now in Sochi.Burt Likkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16060980744675990412noreply@blogger.com