tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post8860211784758906852..comments2024-03-02T02:26:00.928-05:00Comments on bleakonomy: I hate siding with these peopletetracontadigonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04604381739383227553noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-24543229270998078402010-04-25T00:02:09.333-04:002010-04-25T00:02:09.333-04:00TL, do you remember Brown vs. Socialist Workers...TL, do you remember Brown vs. Socialist Workers' Party? The SCOTUS ruled that: <br /><br /><i>The First Amendment prohibits a State from compelling disclosures by a minor political party that will subject those persons identified to the reasonable probability of threats, harassment, or reprisals. Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1, 74 . Moreover, minor parties must be allowed sufficient flexibility in the proof of injury. Ibid. These principles for safeguarding the First Amendment interests of minor parties and their members and supporters apply not only to the compelled disclosure of campaign contributors but also to the compelled disclosure of recipients of campaign disbursements. </i><br /><br />So unless this has been overturned, it appears the Supremes disagree with you about privacy rights of campaign donations.Gadfly Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-1801973086406351272010-04-23T13:26:53.910-04:002010-04-23T13:26:53.910-04:00Thanks for the comment, TL. My only basis for def...Thanks for the comment, TL. My only basis for defending the CLS was that other groups seemed to be able to exclude demographically (or religiously) incompatible members. If all other campus groups are required to accept all potential members, then there's really no question that the CLS has no case.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11213051268392108382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-85470583335243079452010-04-23T13:12:04.438-04:002010-04-23T13:12:04.438-04:00A truly private group can exclude anyone it wants,...A truly private group can exclude anyone it wants, for any arbitrary reason. A student group at a public university, however, is not a truly private group, and Hastings is part of the University of California system. HLS can and indeed <i>must</i> ensure compliance with non-discrimination laws, which means the rule of the Christian Law Students is illegal. If the Christian Law Students want to have a club in which they can legally exclude homosexuals, they are free to form the Church of Heterosexual Law Students Who Purport To Be Good Christians, Inc., an entity <i>entirely separate and apart from</i> the auspices of a public institution. And good luck with explaining that on your moral character applications to the California State Bar.<br /><br />A truly private group can also refuse to divulge its membership. A contributor to a political campaign, however, is making a political statement by giving money to support a cause. A <i>public</i> political statement. When you say something in public, people can hear you and as far as I'm concerned, by making a public statement you've waived your privacy rights to it. There is no privacy right to anonymously donate to a political cause, and if you find the fact of your having donated to a political cause embarassing, then perhaps you ought not to have donated to it in the first place.<br /><br />As for the Christian Legal Society on a moral level, perhaps a Bible quote says it best: "By their fruits shall ye know them." My impression of Christianity at its best is that it is fundamentally about forgiveness; these folks are obsessed with rendering judgment -- and I think if they read their holy book closely, they will find that the privilege of rendering judgment is reserved to someone other than the Christian Law Society.Burt Likkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16060980744675990412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-580317655787199292010-04-22T14:52:33.408-04:002010-04-22T14:52:33.408-04:00I could find no bylaws for any of the groups, so I...I could find no bylaws for any of the groups, so I could not really judge how open they were to membership by demographically different students. If, indeed, white students are welcome to join the black student groups (and seek leadership positions), men to join women's groups, non-Jews to join Jewish groups, etc etc etc, then clearly the case for the Christian Law Society is substantially demolished.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11213051268392108382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-64781499014440170742010-04-22T14:34:32.079-04:002010-04-22T14:34:32.079-04:00By the way, here is the statement from the Turkish...By the way, here is the statement from the Turkish Student Association that my nephew had joined (he has since graduated)<br /><br />Welcome to the official web site of the Turkish Student Association at North Carolina State University (NCSU-TSA).<br /> <br />MISSION STATEMENT:<br /><br />• To advance social and cultural interaction among Turkish students as well as American and all international students<br /><br />• To introduce Turkish culture, art, cuisine, folklore and music within the best possible way<br /><br />• To organize events such as picnics, cultural shows, concerts, trips and celebrations for its members and fellow students<br /><br />• To help new coming Turkish students to familiarize themselves with the NCSU community<br /><br />PRINCIPLE:<br /><br />• To increase team spirit among Turkish students at NCSU and represent Turkish culture in an outstanding manner.<br /><br />GOALS:<br /><br />• To establish a fine bridge between Turkish and other cultures<br />• To introduce Turkish culture to the NCSU community<br />• To increase communication and harmony between Turkish students<br />• To build strong community ties<br />• To work closely with other associations at NCSU to raise TSA's voice and represent Turkey<br /><br />OBJECTIVE:<br /><br />• To increase number of active members and build strong communication and solidarity among members and nonmembers.<br /><br />ACTION PLAN:<br /><br />• To organize regular meetings among the board members biweekly<br />• To provide information to help newcomers in their transition to NCSU as well as to the United States lifestyle<br />• To organize a yearly Turkish Night with an attendance target of at least 400<br />• To celebrate at least one "Bayram"<br />• To form a Turkish music committee and present concerts<br />• To support members in academics<br />• To support sport activities by creating a strong soccer team (“Anatolia”) and by promoting the Wolfpack teams<br />• To plan social activities such as Turkish tea/coffee chats, picnics, trips, dinners, and movie nights once every two weeks<br />• To create personalized TSA apparel as souvenirs once graduation<br /><br />EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE<br /><br />President: Sercan Teleke<br />First Vice President: Ali Kilic<br />Secretary: Meryem Uluskan<br />Treasurer: Fatih Canpolat<br />Webmaster: Berk Zafer<br /><br />This is exactly what school clubs should be about. <br /><br />If the Anti-Christian Legal Society wants to get together let them do it on their own, they can certainly find some bigoted church to provide them space to preach their hatred and exclusion.<br /><br />charoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-77193923009504283622010-04-22T14:28:35.609-04:002010-04-22T14:28:35.609-04:00My nephew joined the club devoted to Turkey even t...My nephew joined the club devoted to Turkey even though he is not Turkish and was the only non Turk there, they were happy to have him and he went with them on a trip to Turkey. (as to why he chose to do so I have no idea he just told me he was interested in it)<br /><br />If you join a club you should adhere to the basic idea of what the club is about. If I join a Kung Fu Club I should partake in the exercises and support the practice and not work against it, but I can still be a pacifist and non-Chinese.<br /><br />The purposes of the clubs should be to promote knowledge and understanding and offer a home to the people who share those beliefs. It should only exclude people who wish to work against the purpose of the club.<br /><br />The simple fact is, for the most part, the reason why my nephew was the only non Turkish member of the club is that most people who are not Turkish don't have any real and abiding interest, yet the Turkish club had the patience and the givingness (if that is a word) to accept my nephew into their club (in fact, by my understanding, they were happy he was part of it because they enjoyed sharing their culture)<br /><br />From then the school has the right to judge the worthiness of the purpose of the club and whether they should then recognize it. A club dedicated to white supremacy has no justification.<br /><br />So that leads us to the Christian Legal Society.<br />What is the purpose of the club. Is it meant to be a home to Christians, espousing Christian ideals? Is, in fact, the Christian Legal Society using false advertising, that they are not Christian at all, but nothing but bigots who are against Christianity. <br /><br />Frankly, it is an abomination for the Christian Legal Society, above all others, to exclude anyone. It is their duty to love and accept all, there certainly can be spirited debates about the sinfulness of the homosexual act but it must be done in the spirit of love and reconciliation. <br /><br />Since the Christian Legal Society is not what it claims to be it should not be recognized.<br /><br />charoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-80602917370231642532010-04-22T13:53:29.361-04:002010-04-22T13:53:29.361-04:00Certainly not more expertise, but I want to inject...Certainly not more expertise, but I want to inject an observation on Case #1. The Asian Pacific American Law Student Association and the Jewish Law Students Association and the Women's Law Journal do not exclude, respectively, non-Asian Pacific Americans, non-Jewish students, or men. The groups focus on issues important to those groups, as defined by the membership at any time, but do not exclude based on race, gender, or sexual orientation. Believe me, especially at a California law school, there are predictably frequent attempts by someone outside the typical participant demographic joining these groups, just as their are men in women's studies classes and whites in African-American studies classes. And, though I can't speak for the welcome diverse participants receive in the aforementioned Hastings groups, they *are* admitted in accordance with school policy.<br />The issue here is the act of barring someone by calling homosexuality an activity rather than an immutable characteristic; the legal issue is not simply having a group comprised primarily of a race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com