tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post4095183360329851855..comments2024-03-02T02:26:00.928-05:00Comments on bleakonomy: Why I will never, ever be Catholic -- part gabilliontetracontadigonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04604381739383227553noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-24397876939543723792009-11-11T18:27:28.094-05:002009-11-11T18:27:28.094-05:00Padraig, Dan, I've never said the RCC is a fon...Padraig, Dan, I've never said the RCC is a font of unalloyed blessing. Promulgating Catholic morality is, well, an essential part of who they are. Most Christian churchs do take moral stands, and guess what, I don't agree with them all the time. But I don't whine about wicked they are for disagreeing with me.<br /><br />Telling people how to vote from the pulpit of a tax-exempt church is illegal, unless, of course, it supports Democratic candidates. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.<br /><br />UJ, the Catholic church isn't sticking its nose into your private life at all. It is telling the faithful what the Catholic position is and getting out the vote. The more the merrier, participation is a good thing, right?<br /><br />Catholics are a minority. They don't make laws. Bishops don't serve in government. The only power they have is persuasion. If you want to change a law over the opposition of the voters who listen to the RCC, well, you'll need to be more persuasive. This isn't rocket science, guys.Gadfly Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-15922080358730368902009-11-11T16:33:28.921-05:002009-11-11T16:33:28.921-05:00Dan, I am with you completely. And I believe that ...Dan, I am with you completely. And I believe that organizations doing good for humanity only get to use all the money they collect if it is used exclusively for those in need. Hetersexuals do not need the Church's benevolence in "saving" them from gay rights. Revoke their tax-free status.<br />I was raised Catholic, a lot of the people I know are Catholic. (I know a shocking number of gay Catholics, who ignore all the political b.s. and worship the root but not the dogma of the religion. I don't understand their choice to do so.) And most American Catholics (meaning a polled majority) think the Church as an establishment abuses power, sticks its nose where it doesn't belong, and makes poverty and social ills WORSE by promoting rampant childbearing. <br />Most Catholics ignore the ban on contraception, disagree with the Church's political stance on abortion (though not necessarily with its moral stance), and revile Catholic insertion into politics at every turn. <br />Problem: there are enough people in the world of all faiths and beliefs who do not question anything they are told, and who use faith as a license for ignorance and self-subjugation.Naptimewritinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18269912586243855713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-39091149315408623122009-11-11T15:05:22.441-05:002009-11-11T15:05:22.441-05:00Padraig, I've been sincerely touched by some o...Padraig, I've been sincerely touched by some of the incredible support my family and I have received from Catholics who are appalled at what their church has done. I should hasten to add that I have no antipathy for Catholics <i> per se, </i> only for the hierarchy. <br /><br />And, while I would never hold responsible those who had nothing to do with the failure of marriage equality in Maine, I genuinely appreciate what you had to say. Thank you.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11213051268392108382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-25817996519878377432009-11-11T14:47:29.029-05:002009-11-11T14:47:29.029-05:00@ Gadfly
> The problem with taxing religious
&...@ Gadfly<br /><br />> The problem with taxing religious<br />> organizations is that you are taxing<br />> (supposedly, but in the case of the<br />> RCC certainly) benevolent <br />> organizations who help the poor, <br />> the sick, and the lonely.<br /><br />Yes, that is true.<br /><br />It's also true that the Catholic church spent millions of dollars (that they could have been using to help the poor, the sick, and the lonely) in support of Maine and California's "pro-traditional marriage" laws.<br /><br />It's certainly within the rights of any religious organization to decide who can and cannot be married within their Church. It's not within the rights of any religious organization to encode that in law that affects people that aren't part of that church.<br /><br />The legal protection granted to religious organizations is supposed to protect them from abuses of the people. It comes with the separation of Church and State. The Catholic church is trying to have it both ways.<br /><br />I'm Catholic (nominally). It really irks me that some of the collection money that I've been providing to my diocese to help the poor, the sick, and the lonely has been used to support legal entrenchment of dogma. My church (or anyone else's) does not have that right, in my opinion.<br /><br />You want to encourage people to vote one way from the pulpit? That's seriously pushing it, but it's generally too big of a can of worms to make this illegal; the negative consequences of this outweigh the positive ones. You want to encourage people to donate to political causes? Again, violating the spirit of the separation of Church and State, but again the negative consequences of trying to prohibit this one outweigh the positive ones.<br /><br />The minute you dip into your organization's coffers directly to support a political cause or a politician, you're definitely over any reasonable line. That's direct participation in politics, and you should pay the vig just like everybody else.<br /><br />Dan, on behalf of all reasonable people who are associated with the Catholic church, I apologize for the wrong done to you and yours.padraighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06567721244433276365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-2478961744554146022009-11-11T14:46:15.929-05:002009-11-11T14:46:15.929-05:00JG, I quote from your latest. "benevolent org...JG, I quote from your latest. "benevolent organizations who help the poor, the sick, and the lonely". WHAT? The Catholic Bishop of Maine collected $152,978.00 from collections at mass. Pray tell how raising money and taking away our civil rights qualifies in the least bit for them to have a tax free reign. That money could have been used to feed starving Catholic children, help the sick and homeless. But NO those sanctimonious dick-wads used it against their fellow human beings. That bastard church should lose its tax deduction along with any other church that delves from their holy scripture and sticks their nose into other peoples private lives. They have no idea what they have done both morally, and spiritually to a very large group of decent law-abiding tax paying persons. As a post script Joseph Ratzinger aka Pope Horrid has proposed Pius XII be made a saint. That should play well.Uncle Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992402926190259718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-73635733426608684422009-11-11T12:51:10.475-05:002009-11-11T12:51:10.475-05:00The inquisition is not in place today only because...The inquisition is not in place today only because the Church could not get away with it. If they could, we would be toast...literally.Uncle Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992402926190259718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-30719971994758015622009-11-11T11:40:44.028-05:002009-11-11T11:40:44.028-05:00I question how apt it is to describe the RCC as &q...I question how apt it is to describe the RCC as "benevolent." I will not question that it does good work in many areas. <br /><br />Regardless, I think it is appropriate to ask how much political wrangling a tax exempt entity is allowed to do before it has to pony up. I would suggest that a church that takes up an additional offering in its services for a purely political campaign has some serious explaining to do, and has pretty [fornicated]-up priorities.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11213051268392108382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-35802101871818547672009-11-10T23:33:09.386-05:002009-11-10T23:33:09.386-05:00The problem with taxing religious organizations is...The problem with taxing religious organizations is that you are taxing (supposedly, but in the case of the RCC certainly) benevolent organizations who help the poor, the sick, and the lonely. Tax them, and now they have a serious increase in expenses for accounting, legal, and record-keeping. This is money that can't be used to feed, clothe, and shelter people. Why would you want to do that in a fit of pique? It isn't going to affect the SSM stance of any church one iota, and it will without question hurt those least able to fend for themselves.Gadfly Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-21163508989969456522009-11-10T19:34:21.242-05:002009-11-10T19:34:21.242-05:00No, compadre, I am not wrong that this is insane.
...No, compadre, I am not wrong that this is insane.<br /><br />If this means that we must reconsider whether religious entities are entitled to tax exemption, I am all for it. I vote "no," for the record.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11213051268392108382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5393996338560944889.post-19463737433344174832009-11-10T19:27:22.336-05:002009-11-10T19:27:22.336-05:00Regardless of how you feel about the doctrine of t...Regardless of how you feel about the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church, they are a religious organization and fall squarely within the religious exemption. They do not need your or my approval to qualify. This is a feature, not a bug. You are wrong that this is insane.Gadfly Johnnoreply@blogger.com